GFF Podcast

The Future of Collateral Management in 2022 - Blockchain, DLT & HQLA

• Clearstream • Season 1 • Episode 7

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In this episode we look in-depth at the way blockchain technology and DLT is changing the world of collateral management with Fabrice Tomenko (CEO Clearstream International) and Nick Short (COO HQLAx). 

We go in-depth with the game-changing tools at HQLAx that can transfer collateral ownership across locations and jurisdictions at precise times, and consider the new concept of Collateral Immobility and how it can reduce pain points for market participants, remove settlement friction, reduce collateral fragmentation and create greater interoperability between infrastructure, custodians and triparty agents. 


SPEAKER_00:

You're listening to the GFF Podcast, the show that goes in-depth and under the hood with the people, the technologies, and the issues that are shaping the world of banking, funding, and financing. This GFF podcast is brought to you by one of the main sponsors of the GFF Summit every year in Luxembourg, and that is Clearstream Banking. And because it's a financial services podcast, we need to read a disclaimer to keep our compliance folks happy. So this podcast is sponsored by Clearstream Banking. It features members of ClearStream and special guests offering their personal opinions and not the opinions of Clearstream as an organization. There is no representation made as to the accuracy or completeness of information in this podcast, and it is not intended to be taken as legal, tax, or other professional advice. But what it is intended to be taken as is 30 minutes of insight and chat with high-profile senior leaders in the banking, funding, and financing industry. And uh joining me again, of course, is a man who needs an introduction. You will know him now uh as my co-host, as the man who keeps me on the straight and narrow. Uh, you will also know him as the uh senior vice president of uh Securities Lending Products. It is, of course, Christian Rossler. Christian, good to have you back.

SPEAKER_03:

Good morning, Andrew. Good to be back.

SPEAKER_00:

And for this Christmas show, uh, you know I normally do a cop movie reference, and of course, there is only one great cop movie that is set at Christmas, and that is, of course, Die Hard, uh, the classic action hero. Yes, you know what I'm talking about. And the thing is, there are a lot of similarities here, because it's not really a buddy movie, like the other cop films we've mentioned, but there is this great interplay between um the bad guy, uh, who is uh German, Hans Gruber, played by Alan Rickman. And of course, uh, like all good movie villains, he's English, regardless of the nationality he's supposed to be in the film. Uh, so he has an impeccable English accent and a rather bad German accent as well, uh, which I also have, mein her. And uh, interesting as well, of course, and I don't know how accurate this is, but I've been told by movie buffs that uh the name Hans Gruber was a reference to Franz Gruber. It was a little joke because Franz Gruber was the composer of the Carol Silent Knight, oder Stillernacht, auf Deutsch, and uh this was anything but a silent night because it's nothing but non-stop machine gun fire and explosions. Good, okay, some movie trivia for you there. Of course, if I am Hans Gruber, that makes Christian uh John McLean, played by Bruce Willis, the tough talking New York cop uh who is, you know, doesn't mess around, put it that way, and uh does find himself uh uh in a high-tech building up against high-tech adversaries, trying to get their hands on some very high-tech liquid assets in the basement. Honestly, that does sound quite a bit like most of the episodes of the GFF podcast so far. And of course, if you've ever been to the GFF Summit uh with Christian, you'll know that he's no stranger to scaling the outside of skyscrapers and breaking in through the air conditioning. And this month's show, Christian, is very special, isn't it? Because we are talking about HQLAX, the blockchain-based collateral management solution, which is really set to transform the world of collateral mobility. Or perhaps we should be talking about collateral immobility. Uh, we'll come to that later on because, of course, we are talking about uh transforming the way that collateral moves around the globe, and that means that uh we're drawing together all the threads from previous shows, whether it's to do with securities lending or repo or cleared and uncleared uh margin requirements, whether it's to do with uh fails lending or banking services, balance sheet optimization or anything else. Ultimately, uh collateral is the thing that underpins so much of the banking, funding, and financing industry. But Christian, before we get to that, I want you to set the big picture for us. Um tell us more about how collateral came to be uh such a fundamental part of the way that uh banking infrastructure operates, because uh we are potentially you know at the cusp of a real sea change in the collateral management business, aren't we?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, Andrew. I think you remember that we ended the last episode uh on the note why the next generation of triparty collateral management services will have to be focusing on on collateral velocity and and collateral mobility. You also remember that we we spoke about collateral optimization in the last episode, which is more centering around transparency and also visibility uh on where collateral sits and what is the collateral value at a certain moment in time, and also where we can actually give visibility to the customers uh through forecasting reports that they can see where collateral can be best allocated at any moment in time. Now, the the question that you asked me and the answer to that question why has this become so important for the banking, funding, and financing industry is because of the economic reasons. So I think at the height of the financial crisis, uh a time of market-wide uh stress, liquidity stress, the demand on high-quality liquid assets um can rise rapidly. And having a good collateral management um system and infrastructure that enables banks to mobilize HQLA in uh multiple jurisdictions uh quickly and efficiently uh can make a major contribution to the stability of the financial system. This is precisely uh the role a collateral manager needs to play. Now, transformation of collateral, the exchange of lower quality collateral against higher quality collateral is chiefly a measure of uh the beneficial owners' willingness to make the high quality liquid asset in their own portfolio available to banks holding low quality assets but in need of funding in stressed market conditions. So um, for instance, long-term investors such as pension funds or sovereign funds hedge uh or modify the risk profile of their portfolios, and uh by doing uh they exchange common bonds, for instance, against other types of bonds with a typically longer duration. So this is um where we are, I think, today. And so I think um that that that is actually why we need uh to to address still today the issue of high-quality liquid assets.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, now seems like a perfect time to bring in Fabrice Tomenko. Of course, you will know Fabrice as a CEO of Clearstream International, and if you've worked in banking funding and financing over the last 10, 15 years, you'll know Fabrice from there as well because he was, of course, previously the head of product development uh for uh banking funding and financing at Clearstream. Before that, he was the head of collateral management and uh product management. And of course, before joining ClearStream, uh Fabrice also worked at BNY Mellon as head of collateral management operations and client services. So if anyone knows what the future is going to look like, it's gonna be Fabrice. Fabrice, uh, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Andrew. And first, thank you for um welcoming us on this uh podcast. And uh and I hope that uh in the movie you're referring to, uh, we'll be on the camp of uh um John McLean, right? Because uh the one winning at the end of the film.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you'd be Sergeant Al Powell, of course, who uh supports him all the way through the movie and at the end helps him take down the bad guys.

SPEAKER_02:

But it's it's a little bit what we are what we are doing here. Uh basically, uh, together with HQLX, um, KStream International is um trying to uh bring um market efficiency uh on um on the front, right? So uh we could not make it uh without HQLX, and uh I I like to to hope that they couldn't make it without us uh as well. But really the the the the objective here is um uh look at um new technology, basically uh look at the pain point uh of the market participant uh around collateral management. And uh Christian explained a little bit, you know, um the need for HQLA asset, try to combine this into an uh target operating model, which is uh basically uh combining new technology with existing um uh process of uh collateral management and try to make the the best of the best of it uh basically in terms of uh efficiency. What I think is important to understand here in this um is in the concept that uh Nick will explain in more detail is that um when we are talking about ClearStream International here, we are talking about another entity of ClearStream, which is not a bank, which is a little bit more uh agile in the way CleStream can uh develop new new product because uh simply is not a CSDR compliant uh uh entity and it should not be. So it gives us a little bit more flexibility in order to approach this new type of uh um uh adventure uh with with startups like HQLX in order to uh develop a new uh new concept, new business model, um which uh the new technology is bringing or uh bringing us basically. Um because what is interesting from a uh technology point of view is not only the technology in itself, but it's more the open-minded that uh this new technology is bringing uh as an opportunity for a business to be reinvented, right? New business to be created and new partnership to be to be created.

SPEAKER_00:

In terms of new models, this is really uh interesting because there are lots of partners uh operating and you know co collaborating around the HQ uh LAX platform who used to be competitors.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that that that that's that's correct. Um Andrew, people realize that uh in our market, one party cannot solve all the problems. It's a combination of actors um looking in the same direction, trying to find solutions for market players. Okay, and HQLX is a very good example where um people like tri-party agent, custodian, uh, market infrastructure are uh collaborating, and and and and the term collaboration is very important in this respect, collaborating in order to solve some of the uh long outstanding issue about uh movement of collateral.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, this is a perfect time to bring in Nick Short, of course, who is the chief operating officer at HQLEX. You probably know Nick already if you've been involved uh in any of the HQLEX initiatives or with any of the major players that obviously are partners in the uh project. Uh Nick, of course, is the chief operating officer. He's helped transform HQLEX from a proof of concept consortium initiative to a live platform which helps improve collateral mobility amongst uh market leading triparty agents as well as custodians. Uh prior, of course, to HQLAX, Nick was at Goldman Sachs, spent 17 years there building liquidity and collateral management technology solutions uh for market participants. So, really, you know, it feels like you're the right man for the job. Nick, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01:

And thank you also for the opportunity for um to come here and speak uh on podcast today. We're very excited to uh to be here. Uh and I'm not entirely sure which character I am in uh uh or could be in in die hard, but I do remember, if I'm right, that there was a lot of broken glass at uh at heights um in a skyscraper building. And so perhaps you know the breaking of glass is some kind of metaphor for innovation, but but who knows, maybe I've got the wrong film.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe there was a lot of broken glass. I'm thinking, could that be a metaphor for collateral fragmentation?

SPEAKER_01:

It it it could be. It could be. Um HQLAX um was uh started as an idea to help uh change ownership of assets more freely uh for bank treasury departments and other collateral management functions of banks and and really to help fine-tune their collateral needs. So it was it was born out of um market participants originally just feeling this pain within their organizations um and then wanting to do something uh about it to uh address that particular pain point. And it it it it was it this all happened a few years ago when when this new technology DLT was emerging, and and you can kind of guess the rest of the story. You know, two and two was put together. Um we formed um a consortium um with the help of uh R3, which is the company that um provides our our DLT solution, which is called CORDA. Um we put a consortium together. Again, this is to Fabrice's point, um, all through collaboration. Uh we did a pilot transaction between uh two of the banks involved. We then formed a strategic partnership with Deutsche Borse. Uh we built the platform, and and as Fabrice alluded to, you know, we uh connected several leading triparty agents in Europe uh to the platform. Again, you know, all uh collaboration uh based.

SPEAKER_00:

Now earlier in the series, of course, um we spoke to Alexander Roque at the Securities Lending Desk, who talked about there'd been challenges with mobilizing collateral and accessing new pools of liquidity. And we also talked, of course, to Richard Glenn and Parrot Sarah Chandron about uh the challenges of uh collateral mobility and the issues this was bringing, uh certainly as well for smaller uh players in the market. Um tell us, is is HQLAX really what Richard Glenn was talking about when he said the future was going to be collateral immobility?

SPEAKER_01:

So what the solution enables is the ownership exchange of securities without needing to move them from A to B. So your immobilization point is is absolutely spot on. Um but whilst keeping the securities where they are, we enable the ownership of them to change freely and more flexibly and uh more easily, actually. Um and so we achieve this via effectively a layer that sits above um the underlying triparty agents and custodians. And of course, uh Fabrice's um trusted third party um solution uh helps us to achieve that. So we work hand in hand between the HQLAX ledger and uh and the trusted third party. Um but the real advantages are you know the ability to change ownership when you want, at precise moments in time, so not to the nearest day, but actually more like the nearest minute. Um and you know the benefits of that are significant because they they, as I think you alluded to, they enable 24 hour seven, any time ownership transfer. Um they also enable intraday activity, so you know, a a collateral lending transaction that starts today and and then ends at some later point uh during the day. Um it also reduces settlement risk, which which I think you've mentioned because the securities stay where they are, they don't have to move from A to B. Um and um you know, lastly but not leastly, you know, we're using a permissioned ledger, um, in this case, CORDA, uh, which will um enable participants to all see the same thing as long as they are permissioned to see that thing, if that makes sense. So that you know, we're very conscious that uh this is capital markets, highly regulated, and um participants should only see what they should see. Um our initial product is a collateral upgrade-downgrade solution. Um, it's a securities lending uh type of uh transaction under a GIMSLE, so global master securities lending agreement, whereby ownership of a bunch of securities in one location are exchanged for another set of securities in another location. So typically somebody's upgrading and somebody else is downgrading. Um the exchange of ownership happens simultaneously on the DLT uh ledger, which is a new thing for the market, uh, and it helps firms reduce their intraday credit and liquidity costs and therefore helps them reduce their capital costs, which can be significant and expensive. Um it's done, the simultaneous uh exchange is done on a title transfer basis. Um, and you know, we call this uh DVD, so delivery versus delivery, which is a play on the existing DVP delivery versus payment. But we think that DVD nicely captures the fact that the ownership exchange is simultaneous, um, which is, you know, frankly, something that we think is not possible away from HQLAX.

SPEAKER_00:

Now, one of the things we have talked about a lot as we draw the threads together uh of the other episodes is this this magic word optimization, which can mean different things to different people depending where they work in the value chain, whether they're buy side, sell side, you know, whether they're uh in treasury services, banking services, and so on. There's lots of different things that need to be optimized. So let's sort of start tying this one down a bit. I mean, it strikes me that, you know, once you've got market participants operating around infrastructure like HQLEX, then the next thing that happens is you've got interoperability, and interoperability means you have greater opportunities to optimize. Give us some examples of those.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. I mean, the the the biggest the the way we view this at HQLX is that um the HQLX platform is an additional new innovative tool in the in in the toolbox of institutions to manage their um collateral and and help optimize their collateral. So, you know, our view is that institutions need to know what they've got in terms of the assets that they own, um, i.e. what's on their balance sheet. Secondly, they need to know how they can execute change of ownership of those assets if they need to. And this is where HQLX comes into play because we provide an additional way to change ownership with greater flexibility than was the case before, uh, you know, with the fine-tuning, the 24-7, the precise moments in time, et cetera. Um, and um ultimately, if you take those two things, what you've got and how you can execute uh ownership change, you then as an institution need to um need the ability to optimize across the two. In terms of uh interoperability, which I think was the other point that you touched on, um, you know, we have um multiple triparty agents and custodians connected or connecting to the platform today. These include ClearStream, EuroClear, JP Morgan, um, Bank of New York, BNP Powerbar, and and City. Uh, and all of these are either connecting as um European triparty agents or or custodians. And um, although the securities stay where they are in these locations, we we believe that we're achieving interoperability by enabling ownership of these securities to be changed, as I say, more easily from one participant to the next without needing to physically move the securities.

SPEAKER_00:

Now, at this point, I want to come back to Christian here because Christian, you've been working in securities lending since the 90s. You have seen many sort of turning points in the industry. You've seen uh the different regulatory regimes come in, you've seen the back office burden growing, you've opened up new markets uh with sec lending desks in Asia. So you've got a sort of a long term view of the way that regimes have changed around the world and the way that uh the market. Conditions have evolved. Now, it feels to me, uh, as an outsider in this world, I guess, that this sort of blockchain solution at HQLAX is kind of a turning point, uh, the start of a whole new journey for the industry. Do you think we're still going to need fails lending, trade repositories, uh, and you know, many of the institutions and many of the functions and processes we have now in a world where there's more frictionless blockchain settlement, where we've got central bank digital currencies, we've got you know new digital infrastructure. I mean, you you've seen the markets evolve. Where do you think we're heading with uh products like HQLEX?

SPEAKER_03:

I think um what uh we did before and what we saw before DLT and blockchain uh at ClearStream uh was a journey uh where we already were engaged on uh to address collateral fragmentation. And um you mentioned it. I was in Asia at that time, and Fabrice came uh at least uh a couple of times uh to Asia. We successfully managed to white label our collateral management engine uh CMAX to um ASX in Australia. And what we did at that time, we severed off collateral management intelligence uh from the collateral uh movements, okay? Uh so from the location and the jurisdiction in which the collateral actually sits. In the case of Australia, we left the collateral in the custody system in Australia, chess at that time, and um we just um took over the collateral management intelligence. So from Luxembourg we calculated um the exposure, the collateral amount that is required, and then we send the information back to Australia and they move the collateral. Ownership was transferred in the coll in the custody system uh in Australia. When we speak today about uh transfer of ownership without moving the collateral, uh we go one step further in this journey. And I think that uh, you know, I like to put things or complicated things, make them simple and not simple things complicated. So let me just try to summarize from my point of view where this fits into the overall picture. So with uh the new technology, I as far as I understand, we are actually leaving the collateral again uh in the location where it is actually in custody. We leave it in the custodian, we leave it in the jurisdiction, but we can actually um connect different jurisdictions, um uh different locations. And um we actually lock up the collateral in the custodian, in that jurisdiction, in the box. And instead of exchanging and transferring the collateral from one custodian to the other, we actually exchange uh only the keys of the boxes.

SPEAKER_02:

All the points that you you mentioned are correct. I think business model like HQLX is bringing uh a kind of revolution in the collateral management space and as well as securities financing, because at the end of the day, there are other use cases than just the collateral. We are talking about a securities lending process uh as well. Um I said kind of revolution because um also the the concept is uh completely new uh as we are talking about uh uh immobility to ensure mobility of ownership, uh, which is a quite catchy uh um phrase to describe what we are what we are doing. Um the the way we are performing it at the moment is is a kind of let's say hybrid. Um and it's it's an evolution towards the revolution, I will say. And let me explain myself. Um, because we are not yet in a complete total um digital um uh way of working. Uh also uh we know that uh securities have been dematerialized, uh, that the record of ownership is uh is done on system, we are not fully digitalized in the in the sense that uh DLT decentralized network is not yet applicable to the uh securities um financing world, right? But HQLX model is a step towards that. And this um explained also why for the moment um for the moment and also in the future, um uh we hope uh that um uh we play as eclipsum international, we play the role of trusted third party. And this is what um uh Nick explained uh before. Um the HCodex model is uh uh is a model which you have different layers of collaboration. Uh, if you look on the website, you will see uh a very nice picture with the different colors explaining each layer of the of the models. And the trusted third party uh concept that uh we are as Cleastream International providing is basically making the connection between the new world of transferring the ownership, the HQLX DLT platform, and the old world of network custodian, which uh we still have to face, right? Or to hold securities, um, which is uh not necessarily uh very innovative on that front, but uh the the the the fact that we have an intermediary between uh who holds the securities on behalf of market participants, which is uh one part of the trick allowing the ownership to be transferred without the securities moving, is uh is a step forward uh uh full digitalization. So it's a kind of today hybrid model between the old world and new world that we are trying to complement, with the hope, of course, that at certain point in time we're moving all the assets which will be issued in a digital way. And we are talking about uh you know uh new assets uh uh being created uh in a in a different form, um, which will be also uh as uh uh available on this type of platform in order to not only optimize existing assets, right, the the traditional assets that we have, but also to take in consideration new digital assets, uh new crypto uh assets, uh digital currency, and all this type of stuff. So I think it's uh it's uh an evolution that we are bringing to the market in the and and we want to go in the direction of a of a revolution. And um and and most probably um the concept that we are putting in place, which is quite unique and I have to say, which is leveraging also the um Luxembourgish uh favorable uh regulatory environment, uh, because um uh uh international and HQLX are Luxembourgish company, um regulated, uh at least for CI. And and this is, I think, uh also a key element that makes this uh operating model successful is that um not only we are uh innovative, we are bringing solutions, but we are also supported by the by the regulator in doing this type of uh uh new construction uh for the market. So uh very early in the process, we have been in contact with uh the CSSF in Luxembourg, and they have been very supportive in the in uh in helping us to a certain extent to validate the model and to allow us to deliver this uh solution to the market. So this is an additional component um that we have to take in consideration because when we are talking about evolution, revolution, um, it doesn't mean that we go wild and we are doing uh things that uh are uh unconservable from a regulator perspective. It is important that we have the the regulator on board and having a regulated entity uh market infrastructure delivering this type of solution uh is key to support uh um the future evolution of the market.

SPEAKER_00:

And for Brice, I mean you're on the collateral harmonization task force that was put in place by the ECB, and you know, you lead on the tri-party uh collateral management stream there. Um so would you say that this is the way we're going? That, you know, interoperability, removing friction, uh, whether that's settlement friction or, you know, uh friction that happens internally between the trading side of the business and the back office side of the business. Do you think that this really is a period where we're gonna see the technology, uh especially the technology that's put in place by market infrastructure, really starting to enable uh better business, uh more optimal business, and also energize the speed at which business can take place for market participants, not just in Europe, I guess, but uh across multiple uh regulatory regimes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that that that's correct, Andrew, and and I think Nick already alluded it uh to this uh a little bit before, is uh you know, um by making uh the operational process easier to manage and reducing risk around uh settlement movement, right? Uh you're increasing the uh opportunity that is given to uh uh to market participants. And especially uh, at least it was the case in my time where uh traders have uh plenty of good ideas uh for trade opportunities, but uh the bottleneck was uh often um the the operation uh teams who uh were not equipped uh basically to support this, and therefore there was uh a lot of manual uh action to be taken. So basically uh by removing some of the barriers that the uh back office uh team, operation team has to uh has to take care of, uh at the same time, we uh increase uh the opportunities that uh the trading part uh can do, basically. Uh they have uh uh almost a free space here when we are talking about uh managing collateral. Um and basically they can come with uh uh plenty of new of new ID, of new trade, uh which will allow them to better manage their LCR, the balance sheet, or better manage uh the variation margin, initial margin on OTC. I mean, all those are new use cases that have been brought to our attention uh by the market participant looking about uh you know on the uh on the first use case and how easy it is for them to uh to use this this tool for uh upgrade and downgrade rate, and and uh what if we could use this for other use cases that uh they are dreaming about? Because at the end of the day, it's a bit like Nick uh explained, um, having the possibility to know exactly where the securities are, because they are not moving simply, right? Um it's um it's an um a very important uh aspect uh of the of the problem that they are facing today. We used to say that you know you need to have to optimize um your collateral, you need to have the the right collateral at the right place at the right time, right? And here um the this this this is changing because you don't need to move it from one location to another, so you are not uh constrained to the settlement friction, and therefore it's just a question of using the right collateral for the right obligation.

SPEAKER_00:

And Nick, we always ask our guests, looking towards the future, uh what's coming up in 2022? We're nearly at the end of the year. What is going to be the New Year's resolution for HQ LAX? What can we expect from you uh over the next 12 months?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, we have a constantly evolving product roadmap um that we're very, very excited about. Um and you know, it's worth saying that our this is really our roadmap is really the result of constant dialogue, interaction, conversations, discussions with our clients. So that's always been our philosophy. And you know, we have a number of you know live use cases at the moment where we're we're literally living and breathing that that philosophy. Most of the use cases on the roadmap actually uh revolve around extending our initial product um a bit further here, a bit further there to uh address uh pain points for clients. And so some examples of that are um, you know, we're working hard to bring agency sec lenders um on board to our platform um to uh enable them to also contribute to the liquidity around the collateral upgrade-downgrade solution. Um we Fabrice has mentioned variation margins. So this is we're very excited about this because it's it's extending our involvement and our you know the the applicability of the platform to the buy side um as well as the sell side, but you know, to help them uh meet uh you know their UMR obligations. So we're very excited about that. Um we're also looking at IM initial margin as well. We're looking at uh CCPs, substantial counterparts. Um and it's also worth noting that you know, although our initial product is a is a tidal transfer solution, um, you know, many of uh these solutions um may also require pledge capabilities. So that's also something that that uh is on our roadmap uh to look at next year. Um and then you know the last one, which is uh again a kind of an extension of the um the initial product is really what I would call intercompany firm financing. So that's really institutions seeing what our platform can do and saying, okay, we we like it for street to you know, street to street trades, but actually we also like it for internal intercompany management. So uh a changing ownership of collateral from one entity to another more freely at precise moments in time, 24-7. And as um Fabrice alluded to, you know, we're we're also looking at other asset classes. Um, you know, we we think that the platform is well set up for um uh facilitating uh assets which are native, what we call natively booked onto Ledger. Um and that's uh something that um you know we're very focused on. Um but also extending the asset classes to more you know additional but more traditional types of uh asset class, you know, whether that's structured products or gold or whatever. Um and one obvious example of that is is actually cash itself. So we uh constantly uh evaluate uh various potential, what we call DVP. So I mentioned DVD earlier. DVP is delivery versus payment, where the P is a is a representation of cash, and where the D is uh a basket of securities or even just an individual security represented on our ledger. So, you know, the the whole what I would call cash space is a is an exciting um and emerging area generally, and and we we feel well placed to um to address our client demand for that. Um and then lastly but not least, the I would uh just mention that we we ran our first uh we're very proud we we ran our first conference um in October, uh, which is uh you know achievements um for a company of a relative modest size, such as ours, um, which was which was hosted at uh JP Morgan and uh involve many clients and partners represented on the panels. And you know, thank you to everybody that contributed. But uh we're we'll be uh planning to do another one of those in in 2022.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thanks very much, Nick. That actually uh ties in very nicely with our diehard theme this week, because of course it was during a successful live event that Hans Gruber decided to steal$640 million uh dollars in negotiable bearabonds, which have high-quality liquid assets back then, uh, from the Nakatomi Plaza, which of course would make you technically Theo, who was played by Clarence Gilliard Jr., the uh high-tech stavecracker and computer genius. And uh, of course, that means that Fabrice and Christian uh are taking all the risks to make sure they manage ours more effectively. They see what I did there? That's great. We've tied that all up very well. I think that all that remains really for us, Christian, is to say a big thank you to our very special guests for this uh very festive Christmas edition of the GFF podcast. And that is, of course, uh the CEO of Clearstream International, Fabrice Tomanko. Fabrice, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, Andrew. And I wish you all a Merry Christmas, Happy New Year 2022. Uh, as you can heard from from Nick, we have a lot of things to do on our plate, and hopefully we'll come also with uh additional news in the 2022, which will go in the same direction of innovation and uh market efficiency.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, stay tuned for more news uh coming out from Clearstream International in 2022, and also that will include this man, Mr. Nick Shaw, the CEO of HQLEX. Nick, thank you very much for joining us and taking us through the platform today.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, thank you very much, and uh thank you for the opportunity, and uh I wish everybody a good uh festive season, and uh yeah, we're very excited about next year.

SPEAKER_00:

And so, Christian, this is very possibly going to be the first podcast that uh many of our listeners will be hearing in January. So we're going out on December the 31st. So uh before we wish everyone a happy new year, what is going to be your New Year's resolution?

SPEAKER_03:

My New Year's resolution is to be happy in the new year.

SPEAKER_00:

I I think that's a good one. Uh I've got a New Year's resolution for you. Don't break any carbon fiber racing bikes. Okay. And uh tell us, because you you did go, uh you did climb a summit of a mountain in 2018, didn't you? As your New Year's celebration. And we are working towards the GFF summit. So, you know, before then, are you gonna try and get another summit in?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, that was the Aconcagua on the 28th of December. Uh, it was uh actually uh between uh Christmas and New Year that I was up there. Now this year, obviously, uh talking about summits. Yes, we always have the GFF summit in um in the beginning of uh of the year, and uh this uh next coming year we will have to um to postpone the summit until um September. So there's no summit uh for me. Uh uh not uh on the GFF side nor uh nor uh on the on the mountains.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't worry about that. The important thing, Christian, though, is that we're gonna be here right the way through to the GFF summit. Uh with all the the big names, the personalities, the hot products, and the new technologies that are shaping the world of banking funding and financing. That's my new year's resolution for 2022. Well, I mean that and also getting back to playing live music. So, you know, uh Christian, if you ever cycle to a pub in Suffolk, there's a good chance there may be a fat middle-aged man there playing blues guitar, and that'll be me.

SPEAKER_03:

No, I mean I just saw your guitars, and I I'm really looking forward to to see you on stage uh with your with your buddies. Uh the first window I get to come to the UK, I I I come to you and uh we'll see you live playing uh with your band.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, as you know, uh there's a few people in my band who work for the Deutsche Borsa and within the post-trade space, and you know, it's all about getting the right people up on stage there with you. And actually, that kind of brings us nicely to a big thank you for all our guests for this season, because without them, we wouldn't have had such a great run in 2021, and we wouldn't be having such a great run planned for 2022. And that is, of course, in no particular order, but huge thank you, of course, to Tillman Feschter, uh, who has supported us all the way through. This Tillman, obviously the head of banking funding and financing, but also our very special guest that have joined us too, and that's Alexandra. Rock, uh, Banu Appas, Catherine Pring, Richard Glenn Parasart Chandran, Jonathan Lombardo from Isla, Mark Ponsignon, Deffie Kamenga, Jose Manuka, James Cherry, Jean Robert Wilkins, Simon Millington from Cloud Margin, and today's guests Fabrice Tomenko and Nick Short from HQLAX. But that's it. The bells are chiming. We've run out of time again on this GFF show, but we will be back in January. Don't miss it then. And we hope that you've all had a good break over Christmas, because you know that there's an awful lot of collateral news moving around next year, for sure. And so from all of us here at the GFF Podcast, it's a big goodbye from me, Andrew Keith Walker, and from my co-host, Mr. Christian Rossler.

SPEAKER_03:

Goodbye for me, and um Al as good as I'm now your Posit No Yar, Bon Any, Feliz Ano Nuevo, Happy New Year to everybody.

SPEAKER_00:

See you all in 2022. Have a good one. Bye bye.